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[08:02] |
| <mhuot> |
~weather KSTP |
[08:15] |
| <_sndbot> |
Station ID: KSTP Wind Speed: 7.0 mph, 6.0 knots Visibility: 10.0 mile(s) Pressure: 29.92 in Hg Temperature: 6.0 C, 42.8 F Clear skies |
[08:16] |
| <sfb> |
sup mhuot |
[08:19] |
| <mhuot> |
heya sfb! |
[08:20] |
| <sfb> |
nada |
[08:20] |
| <sfb> |
just pissy about commvault |
[08:20] |
| <sfb> |
haha |
[08:20] |
| *_snd be pissed |
[08:21] |
| <_snd> |
an dnot the good kind |
[08:21] |
| <sfb> |
Why is that? |
[08:22] |
| <_snd> |
tomorrow is 1st of may, i.e. day off, friday is a short day with little action as most are gone for a long weekend and i'm realising i'm getting an easy 36 hours ahead |
[08:22] |
| <_snd> |
at 15:10 i get a good mug og tea, plant myself on the couch, turn on my dvd player with the crossroads festival and decide to enoy the blues |
[08:23] |
| <_snd> |
at 15:20 someone calls and explains "this stuff don't work and if that don't work we cant deploy new crap tonight" |
[08:23] |
| <_snd> |
2 mins of digging confirms this is a problem in an old firewall we need to get around, and to do that i need the isp to change a single route, 30 mins before a long weekend, and i need the new firewall admin to tweak that firewall |
[08:24] |
| <_snd> |
no, what's the chance of someone 30 mins before losingtime for a long weekend actually dreams up this crap, and the chance og getting me, wo firewall admins and an isp to play nice on 90 minutes notice to fix something that will rquire the whole shop to go down? |
[08:25] |
| <_snd> |
'tis a conspiracy i say, a conspiracy! |
[08:25] |
| <mhuot> |
_snd: We did not think you would figure out our conspiracy though! |
[08:39] |
| <_snd> |
hm |
[08:42] |
| *** _clc_ :solaria.sparf.com joined the channel |
[08:55] |
| <_clc_> |
Hello, does anyone here have shell access to the OpenNMS bugzilla box? |
[08:56] |
| <RangerRick> |
_clc_: yes, why? |
[08:58] |
| <_clc_> |
RangerRick: I am trying to create an account, but the box appears to not be able to email me my password. |
[08:59] |
| <_clc_> |
I see it connect, but it never issues any SMTP commands. |
[08:59] |
| <_clc_> |
can you try to telnet to solaria.sparf.com port 25 and see if you can see the banner. |
[09:00] |
| <RangerRick> |
(conversation with solaria.sparf.com[207.154.65.35] timed out while performing the EHLO handshake) |
[09:00] |
| <Winkie> |
just as a second opinion, solaria.sparf.com also fails for me |
[09:01] |
| <Winkie> |
my SYN is accepted but the banner is never displayed |
[09:01] |
| <Winkie> |
~weather egcc |
[09:02] |
| <_sndbot> |
Usage: ~weather STATION-ID - see http://www.rap.ucar.edu/weather/surface/stations.txt |
[09:02] |
| <_clc_> |
Interesting... |
[09:02] |
| <Winkie> |
bah :) |
[09:02] |
| <Winkie> |
that is my weather station ID :) |
[09:02] |
| <RangerRick> |
maybe it's greylisting? |
[09:02] |
| <_clc_> |
no, no grey listing, its open to the world. |
[09:02] |
| <Winkie> |
greylisting is post helo anyway |
[09:02] |
| <_clc_> |
it might be a pmtu issue somewhere. |
[09:02] |
| <Winkie> |
also the stdev on ping times to that machine are high, quite high |
[09:02] |
| <_clc_> |
but so far, bugzilla.opennms.org is the only host I have seen with the issue. |
[09:03] |
| <Winkie> |
on the order of 200-300ms |
[09:03] |
| <RangerRick> |
I just tried flushing and it's still having trouble sending |
[09:03] |
| <RangerRick> |
hm, that sounded slightly dirty |
[09:03] |
| <Winkie> |
i'm too lazy to install hping and check the tcpseqids but it might be under some sort of DOS |
[09:03] |
| <Winkie> |
;)) |
[09:03] |
| <_clc_> |
it works great from Amazon EC2 :) |
[09:04] |
| <_clc_> |
# telnet solaria.sparf.com 25 |
[09:04] |
| <_clc_> |
Trying 207.154.65.35... |
[09:04] |
| <_clc_> |
Connected to solaria.sparf.com (207.154.65.35). |
[09:04] |
| <_clc_> |
Escape character is '^]'. |
[09:04] |
| <_clc_> |
220 solaria.sparf.com ESMTP Sendmail 8.14.1/8.14.1; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 04:15:22 GMT |
[09:04] |
| <_clc_> |
I will try from somewhere in Europe... |
[09:04] |
| <RangerRick> |
if I telnet I get the banner |
[09:04] |
| <_clc_> |
RangerRick: well that is unexpected... |
[09:05] |
| <RangerRick> |
but if I do HELO nen.opennms.org it just sits there |
[09:06] |
| <Winkie> |
i don't get the banner if telnetting |
[09:07] |
| <RangerRick> |
oh, wait, no, no banner |
[09:07] |
| <RangerRick> |
but it connects |
[09:07] |
| <RangerRick> |
wait, got it this time |
[09:07] |
| <Winkie> |
now it doesn't connect for me |
[09:07] |
| <Winkie> |
oh wait |
[09:07] |
| <RangerRick> |
220 solaria.sparf.com ESMTP Sendmail 8.14.1/8.14.1; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 04:18:48 GMT |
[09:07] |
| <RangerRick> |
then I do a HELO nen.opennms.org |
[09:07] |
| <RangerRick> |
and it's waiting |
[09:07] |
| <Winkie> |
yeah i got the banner after about ~8s |
[09:07] |
| <_clc_> |
it will do a DNS lookup, so you may just be seeing a short timeout. |
[09:07] |
| <brozow> |
this sounds like a job for mailping :-) |
[09:08] |
| <RangerRick> |
haha |
[09:08] |
| <Winkie> |
_clc_: maybe, i have quite obvious rdns :) |
[09:08] |
| <RangerRick> |
we've had plenty of other people get emails, so I'm inclined to think it's on your end ;) |
[09:08] |
| <RangerRick> |
but I'd be happy to keep re-flushing the queue to try things |
[09:08] |
| <Winkie> |
i'm not expecting email, just trying to help you guys |
[09:08] |
| <_clc_> |
well the box gets thousands of emails a day :) |
[09:08] |
| <RangerRick> |
=) yeah, thanks |
[09:08] |
| <_clc_> |
I'm just trying to get a pw to the bugzilla box :) |
[09:09] |
| <RangerRick> |
_clc_: well, there has to be some reason it's not accepting ours, do your logs say anything? the IP is 216.216.217.254 |
[09:09] |
| <Winkie> |
mind if i ask a (somewhat sarcastic) question? What the hell are you doing with Sendmail still on there? |
[09:09] |
| <RangerRick> |
haha |
[09:09] |
| <Winkie> |
install postfix; problem solved |
[09:09] |
| <Winkie> |
(not actually true but dear god Sendmail :() |
[09:09] |
| <_clc_> |
well, sendmail works :) |
[09:10] |
| <_clc_> |
most of the time... |
[09:10] |
| <_clc_> |
on my side, I never see a HELO from the bugzilla box. |
[09:10] |
| <_clc_> |
it connects, then timesout. |
[09:10] |
| <RangerRick> |
no denying it works, I just phear their security history |
[09:10] |
| <Winkie> |
and configuration :( |
[09:11] |
| <RangerRick> |
not to mention big monolithic scary codebase |
[09:11] |
| <RangerRick> |
meh, configuration wit hthe .m4 stuff isn't that bad now, although I like postfix's better |
[09:11] |
| <RangerRick> |
_clc_: I've got nuthin'; I typed it in, hit enter :) |
[09:11] |
| <Winkie> |
RangerRick: well our postfix setup is entirely virtual, and it took approximately ~8 lines of configuration to sort out :p |
[09:11] |
| <Winkie> |
it was intensely easy, and other than a couple of tricky naming issues (wildcard dns!) we're good |
[09:11] |
| <Winkie> |
we handle hundreds of thousands of mails a month :( |
[09:12] |
| <Winkie> |
backing up the mailserver takes ~9 hours |
[09:12] |
| <Winkie> |
anyway i shall leave you fine gentlmen in peace to resolve your own issues |
[09:13] |
| <_clc_> |
RangerRick: so you saw the banner, did HELO return? |
[09:13] |
| <RangerRick> |
nope |
[09:13] |
| <_clc_> |
RangerRick: can you try once more please. |
[09:15] |
| <_clc_> |
Apr 27 04:29:47 solaria sm-mta[5660]: m3R4PgAr005660: nen.opennms.org [216.216.217.254] did not issue MAIL/EXPN/VRFY/ETRN during connection to MTA |
[09:18] |
| <RangerRick> |
ok, got the banner a little faster |
[09:18] |
| <RangerRick> |
typed HELO |
[09:18] |
| <RangerRick> |
wonder if that's from the last one |
[09:18] |
| <_clc_> |
yes, it is. |
[09:18] |
| <_clc_> |
that is what all of them say. |
[09:18] |
| <RangerRick> |
so it would eventually get there, if it wasn't timing out |
[09:18] |
| <RangerRick> |
is iowait or load high on that machine or anything? |
[09:19] |
| <_clc_> |
that was the the mtu set to 576 and the fw off. |
[09:19] |
| <_clc_> |
no, the box is idle. |
[09:19] |
| <_clc_> |
the openms bugzilla box is the only host I know of that has trouble sending email to it. |
[09:19] |
| <RangerRick> |
we're not in any rbls |
[09:19] |
| <RangerRick> |
weird |
[09:19] |
| <_clc_> |
I'm on the mailing list :) It works great... |
[09:20] |
| <RangerRick> |
mailing list comes from sourceforge |
[09:20] |
| <RangerRick> |
not our host |
[09:20] |
| <_clc_> |
ah. |
[09:20] |
| <RangerRick> |
I can always PM you the password, but you won't get update emails either =) |
[09:20] |
| <_clc_> |
well, for now I would be happy to just be able to open a bug... |
[09:21] |
| <_clc_> |
so not getting update emails won't kill me. |
[09:21] |
| <_clc_> |
if you an external box for email, could you just forward it to me. |
[09:23] |
| <_clc_> |
by external, I mean not on the same netowrk as the bugzilla box. |
[09:24] |
| <RangerRick> |
_clc_: did you get my private message? |
[09:26] |
| <_clc_> |
nope. |
[09:26] |
| <RangerRick> |
ah, maybe you're not registered with nickserv |
[09:27] |
| <_clc_> |
I'm not a big IRC user. |
[09:27] |
| <_clc_> |
so, no, I"m not. |
[09:27] |
| <RangerRick> |
ok, sent from my gmail account |
[09:28] |
| <_clc_> |
super, thanks. |
[09:28] |
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[09:29] |
| <RangerRick> |
np |
[09:30] |
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[09:36] |
| *chiadog builds joed with gcj |
[09:38] |
| <mhuot> |
chiadog: Is that wise? |
[09:39] |
| <RangerRick> |
joed will be riddled with bugs! |
[09:39] |
| <chiadog> |
tis only a symbolic gesture |
[09:40] |
| <chiadog> |
(a missing symbolic gesture!) |
[09:40] |
| <RangerRick> |
booo |
[09:42] |
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[09:59] |
| *** eshelbk :159.121.202.161 joined the channel |
[10:01] |
| *** cei :195.37.209.138 joined the channel |
[10:10] |
| <cei> |
hello everyone |
[10:10] |
| <RangerRick> |
hola |
[10:10] |
| <mhuot> |
hello |
[10:11] |
| <cei> |
when I click on dashboard I get an error: com.google.gwt.user.client.rpc.InvocationException |
[10:11] |
| <p-brane> |
cei: in the words of my Dr., don't click on dashboard |
[10:12] |
| *p-brane ducks |
[10:13] |
| <cei> |
and in output.log ist appears: java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException: Index: 8, Size: 8 |
[10:13] |
| <mhuot> |
~p-brane -- |
[10:13] |
| <_sndbot> |
I guess the factoid 'p-brane' might be appropriate: |
[10:13] |
| <_sndbot> |
mhuot, p-brane is gvainfo's favorite model |
[10:13] |
| <mhuot> |
p-brane-- |
[10:13] |
| <mhuot> |
p-brane -- |
[10:13] |
| <mhuot> |
Bah! |
[10:13] |
| <p-brane> |
cei: what version are you running; what changes have you made; did this every work before; what is your social security number??? |
[10:14] |
| <p-brane> |
~p-brane-- |
[10:14] |
| <_sndbot> |
Changing one's own karma is not permitted. |
[10:14] |
| <_sndbot> |
p-brane, you have a karma level of 6. |
[10:14] |
| <cei> |
ver 1.5.90-1 |
[10:15] |
| <p-brane> |
no shameless self promotion or demotion allowed I guess ;-) |
[10:17] |
| <p-brane> |
cei: that's a good start |
[10:17] |
| *** fskrotzki :host198.textwise.com joined the channel |
[10:19] |
| <p-brane> |
cei: ? |
[10:19] |
| <Winkie> |
is there any documentation as to the parameters different monitors support? I would like to have a pop3 monitor log in to a specific account and try and list emails |
[10:20] |
| <Winkie> |
i don't need to return the results, just ensure the emails are listed |
[10:20] |
| *** parag0n :82-70-62-126.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk joined the channel |
[10:20] |
| <p-brane> |
cei: are you running tomcat vs jetty? are you running opennms as root? what changes have you made from the default install? does the surveillance view link work? are you a vegetarian? |
[10:21] |
| <cei> |
:) |
[10:21] |
| <cei> |
jetty, surveillance shows no nodes down and prod, test, dev all show 0 of 0 |
[10:23] |
| <p-brane> |
answer to root question? |
[10:26] |
| <mwmwmw> |
anyone work with glassfish? |
[10:26] |
| <p-brane> |
mwmwmw: hear that it is fragile |
[10:26] |
| <mwmwmw> |
we changed the admin interface to work on ssl ports.. and it becomes just about un-useable. |
[10:27] |
| *** MrCerulean :209-203-68-2.static.twtelecom.net joined the channel |
[10:27] |
| <mwmwmw> |
that's even before you create a clusters :) |
[10:27] |
| <cei> |
opennms discovered many nodes, I've set up this: http://www.opennms.org/index.php/HTTPMonitor |
[10:28] |
| <cei> |
and this: http://www.opennms.org/index.php/JDBC_test_databases |
[10:29] |
| *** parag00n :82-70-62-126.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk joined the channel |
[10:31] |
| <cei> |
I had a node defined in a provisioning group on which the HTTPMonitor was tested. It is now deleted |
[10:31] |
| <p-brane> |
cei: did you do a fresh install of 1.5.90-1? Why I'm asking is it possible that you have a merged configuration with previews version config files? |
[10:33] |
| <p-brane> |
s/previews/previous |
[10:33] |
| <sfb> |
In capsd/poller-configuration can a service name have spaces in it? |
[10:35] |
| <cei> |
it's the first install of opennms on that machine |
[10:36] |
| <mhuot> |
~p-brane-- |
[10:36] |
| <_sndbot> |
p-brane has a karma level of 5, mhuot |
[10:36] |
| *sfb pokes mhuot |
[10:37] |
| <cei> |
oh, I checked another machine (kubuntu) with opennms 1.5.90-1 on it with no specific monitoring for mysql and http other than default and there is the same problem. |
[10:39] |
| <Winkie> |
i don't know who i should be asking here, but is what i asked before possible? to get an pop3 monitor to connect to a pop3 server and log in and check it can retrieve a mail? |
[10:46] |
| <cei> |
that machine has only a config in nsclient-config.xml |
[10:46] |
| <McFly> |
Winkie: http://www.opennms.org/index.php/GeneralPurposePoller How about using that? |
[10:48] |
| <cei> |
both installs of opennms have discovered ~65 nodes and are monitoring them |
[10:49] |
| <Winkie> |
McFly: aha that does look to be what i could do with |
[10:51] |
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[10:51] |
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[11:03] |
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[11:07] |
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[11:23] |
| <cei> |
if the reason of my problem with dashboard can't be found out, how can I "reset" opennms to a dafault install? How to make the database anew? I still have the original config files in /etc/opennms. |
[11:27] |
| <Winkie> |
McFly: is there any documentation on the attributes for the builtin monitors? Like MySQL for example? |
[11:30] |
| <McFly> |
I'm definitely not the one to ask about that, I have no idea :/ |
[11:31] |
| <cei> |
can a reinstal of the db be done with this command: $OPENNMS_HOME/bin/install.pl -q $OPENNMS_HOME/etc/create.sql |
[11:31] |
| <cei> |
? |
[11:31] |
| <RangerRick> |
you want install -cdis |
[11:32] |
| <RangerRick> |
(-c is the "clear the database") |
[11:32] |
| <RangerRick> |
but I suspect the database won't fix any dashboard stuff |
[11:33] |
| <RangerRick> |
more likely that a config file change of some kind (users, etc.) would be causing issues |
[11:34] |
| <cei> |
ok |
[11:36] |
| <cei> |
so I should try to revert all config files although at least on the second machine they seem not to differ much |
[11:38] |
| <RangerRick> |
I really don't know, it's hard to say without debugging it more; what else is in the log files? all you've posted is part of a couple of lines |
[11:39] |
| <RangerRick> |
lisppaste7: url |
[11:39] |
| <lisppaste7> |
To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/opennms and enter your paste. |
[11:39] |
| <cei> |
is there any other logfile relevant than output.log? |
[11:41] |
| <RangerRick> |
very likely; web ui stuff will show up in the jetty and/or tomcat logs, and other stuff could potentially show up elsewhere |
[11:42] |
| <RangerRick> |
try grepping all the logs for ERROR or FATAL, or Exception |
[11:42] |
| <RangerRick> |
output.log is a dumping ground where things accidentally show up because we haven't fixed logging to put it into a "real" logfile =) |
[11:43] |
| <RangerRick> |
any java exceptions/etc showing up in output.log are probably a bug that means they need to get put somewhere else |
[11:43] |
| <cei> |
in output.log it is declared as "WARN:" and is _immeadeately_ thrown by clicking dashboard by watchin tail -f output.log |
[11:49] |
| <cei> |
first line (of many) after IndexOutOfBoundsException: at java.util.ArrayList.RangeCheck(ArrayList.java:546) |
[11:53] |
| <Winkie> |
McFly: this general purpose poller seems useful for everything that's not supported by default, but a lot of the monitors (MySQL, LDAP, POP etc) can all be expanded by actually having them do actions when they connect, if they don't already |
[11:55] |
| <Winkie> |
damn java, i don't know anything about it other than it's slow and ugly :p |
[11:55] |
| <lisppaste7> |
cei pasted "dashboard_problem-output.log" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/59977 |
[12:04] |
| <cei> |
RangerRick: thank you for the tip with paste.lisp.org! |
[12:07] |
| <cei> |
my poor little test server is still grepping in the logfiles... |
[12:11] |
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[12:23] |
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[12:29] |
| <djgregor_work> |
w00t |
[12:29] |
| <fastjay> |
w00t is right! |
[12:47] |
| <mhuot> |
w00t! |
[12:51] |
| <fastjay> |
anyone here running a large ldap install? |
[12:53] |
| <fastjay> |
our ldap stuff is pretty janky now... going to actually pull it out |
[12:53] |
| <fastjay> |
as 5 people need access to most servers.. just going to manage users w/ puppet |
[12:54] |
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[12:58] |
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[13:22] |
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[13:31] |
| <adeel> |
fastjay, it's still a pain to have to update/synchronize passwords across machines |
[13:44] |
| <adeel> |
fastjay, although, you could do a simple rsync type setup where every 5/10 mins the servers run a rsync for /etc/passwd & shadow |
[13:44] |
| <fastjay> |
adeel: going to use puppet for it |
[13:49] |
| <adeel> |
never heard of puppet |
[13:49] |
| <fastjay> |
puppet is awsome |
[13:49] |
| <fastjay> |
config mgmt system |
[13:49] |
| <adeel> |
hmmm, i've heard of cfengine though |
[13:50] |
| *** fskrotzki :host.textwise.com joined the channel |
[13:50] |
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[13:50] |
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[13:51] |
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[13:52] |
| <adeel> |
hmmm...seems like it depends on ruby |
[13:53] |
| *** [1]fskrotzki :host198.textwise.com joined the channel |
[13:58] |
| <djgregor_work> |
adeel: puppet rocks |
[14:12] |
| *** agalue :190.74.179.116 joined the channel |
[14:22] |
| <djgregor_work> |
agalue! |
[14:25] |
| <agalue> |
djgregor_work hello! |
[14:25] |
| <djgregor_work> |
agalue: a lot of great work on the thresholder lately |
[14:26] |
| <agalue> |
djgregor_work yes... and I think that is ok (logs says that is doing their work ok), but it was very hard for me make some junit tests for ThresholdingVisitor |
[14:27] |
| <Sortova> |
agalue! |
[14:30] |
| <agalue> |
Sortova! |
[14:30] |
| *** k-tr :DSL01.83.171.144.168.ip-pool.NEFkom.net joined the channel |
[15:01] |
| <fastjay> |
afternoon |
[15:13] |
| <cei> |
ok, nobody seems to have an idea, what causes the problem of the dashboard. I will have to revert to a clean new install and I may have to give up using ver. 1.5.90-1 altogether. I somehow have to prevail over this unwilling thing... |
[15:14] |
| <p-brane> |
agalue: what have you checked in that I should build and test? |
[15:21] |
| <agalue> |
p-brane, you mean about ThresholdingVisitor changes ? |
[15:22] |
| <RangerRick> |
cei: open a bug on it, and paste anything that looks relevant |
[15:22] |
| <RangerRick> |
at least then it won't get forgotten |
[15:22] |
| <RangerRick> |
if it's not in bugzilla, it won't get fixed, 'cause we'll forget about it ;) |
[15:22] |
| <cei> |
in watchfully repeating everything up to the moment the problem occurs again, I could possibly figure it out myseslf |
[15:23] |
| <agalue> |
p-brane: I can sent you the last diff file for ThresholdingVisitor or I can submit to 1.6-testing (or other branch). Let me know which one do you prefer. With this change thresholds from collectd now work perfect for counter variables like ifInOctets or ifOutOctets. |
[15:31] |
| *** jmkdev :LPuteaux-151-42-10-210.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr joined the channel |
[15:37] |
| <p-brane> |
a commit would be fine |
[15:38] |
| <RangerRick> |
agalue: feel free to commit to 1.6-testing |
[15:38] |
| <brozow> |
ditto |
[15:38] |
| <agalue> |
RangerRick... perfect. I'm doing it now |
[15:38] |
| <cei> |
thank you for having "listened" so far, and enjoy your 1st may parties tonight :) it's alredy late, bye |
[15:39] |
| <djgregor_work> |
agalue: I'll take a look at the unit tests over the weekend |
[15:42] |
| <agalue> |
djgregor_work... thanks.. really appreciate that |
[15:42] |
| *** gvainfo :zehill.genevainformation.ch joined the channel |
[15:46] |
| <p-brane> |
agalue: thanks for the check in.. I will do some testing tonight |
[15:51] |
| <agalue> |
I did it. I closed bug 2435. I need to go right now, but I will be in touch. Bye |
[15:51] |
| <RangerRick> |
werd |
[15:52] |
| *** gvainfo :zehill.genevainformation.ch joined the channel |
[15:52] |
| *** nmsmanjohn parted the channel |
[15:59] |
| <adeel> |
at one point do i need to add a <resourceType> entry in the datacollection-config.xml file? and do i need to do anything else after adding it for it to work? |
[16:33] |
| *** djgregor_ :d47-69-74-132.nap.wideopenwest.com joined the channel |
[16:41] |
| <_snd> |
morn |
[17:01] |
| *** exothermc :74.85.89.146 joined the channel |
[17:07] |
| <geoaxis> |
~logs |
[17:22] |
| <_sndbot> |
http://carboy.networkgeek.org:8080/_sndbot/javabot/home |
[17:22] |
| <_snd> |
geo :) |
[17:23] |
| <geoaxis> |
_snd! :] |
[17:24] |
| *** brozow :cpe-076-182-023-094.nc.res.rr.com joined the channel |
[17:27] |
| *** p-brane :adsl-074-168-223-139.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net joined the channel |
[17:29] |
| <_snd> |
anywy, thats what brozow and p-brane said about it |
[17:30] |
| <geoaxis> |
hello, p-brane , brozow |
[17:30] |
| <not-pbrane> |
heh |
[17:30] |
| <_snd> |
everyone getting ready to fly banners and march tomorrow? |
[17:31] |
| <chalco> |
sure |
[17:32] |
| *chalco could use some more worker's rights |
[17:32] |
| <geoaxis> |
now this is what i call clash of civilizations http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/more/04/30/cricket.cheerleaders.ap/index.html?cnn=yes |
[17:32] |
| <_snd> |
hehe |
[17:35] |
| <p-brane> |
w00t |
[17:36] |
| *** adeel :c-24-7-132-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net joined the channel |
[17:38] |
| <_snd> |
adeel: :) |
[17:40] |
| <adeel> |
hey |
[17:40] |
| <adeel> |
stupid Xnest |
[17:40] |
| <_snd> |
blame it on the x server, the classical move |
[17:41] |
| <adeel> |
well everytime my screensaver on my root X starts, or when i change virtual desktops, my Xnest connection dies |
[17:42] |
| <adeel> |
which is where my xchat is running on |
[17:42] |
| *** mhuot :pdpc/supporter/active/mhuot joined the channel |
[17:45] |
| <_snd> |
so mhuot says |
[17:46] |
| <mhuot> |
_snd: Not always but yes sometimes |
[17:46] |
| <_snd> |
mhuot: agreed |
[17:46] |
| <geoaxis> |
adeel: disable the screen saver |
[17:48] |
| <geoaxis> |
which distro/OS? |
[17:48] |
| <adeel> |
geoaxis, yeah, but it doesn't solve the switching virtual desktop problem |
[17:48] |
| <adeel> |
gentoo linu |
[17:48] |
| <adeel> |
err gentoo linux amd64 |
[17:49] |
| <_snd> |
ooooh, gentoo |
[17:50] |
| *_snd swoons |
[17:51] |
| <geoaxis> |
adeel: oh well i have given up on genttoo , like married men give up in binge drinking |
[17:52] |
| <adeel> |
i love gentoo |
[17:52] |
| <geoaxis> |
(it sounds so corny) |
[17:52] |
| <adeel> |
it's the most logical distro |
[17:52] |
| <geoaxis> |
and i love binge drinking |
[17:52] |
| <adeel> |
so do i |
[17:52] |
| <geoaxis> |
but need stability |
[17:52] |
| <_snd> |
adeel: it has the best installer, bash |
[17:52] |
| <adeel> |
_snd, i agree |
[17:52] |
| <adeel> |
it also has the best install process....manual |
[17:52] |
| <adeel> |
and it's package management is pretty darn good |
[17:53] |
| <_snd> |
geoaxis: i have 76 servers on my list of servers i manage, and they run in production, and for a single man to do that on a few hours a month isnt bad |
[17:53] |
| <adeel> |
_snd, what distro do you use? |
[17:54] |
| <_snd> |
gentoo |
[17:54] |
| <geoaxis> |
_snd: witgh debian you can manage servers easily as well, its all in your head |
[17:54] |
| <geoaxis> |
i use ubuntu |
[17:54] |
| <geoaxis> |
with* |
[17:54] |
| <adeel> |
_snd, nice |
[17:54] |
| <geoaxis> |
used gentoo from 2003 right uptill last year |
[17:54] |
| <_snd> |
geoaxis: why stop? |
[17:55] |
| <adeel> |
the sad fact of rpm based systems is that it's a security risk to have packages that you don't need on a machine |
[17:55] |
| <geoaxis> |
_snd: my primary interest is software devlopment |
[17:55] |
| <_snd> |
geoaxis: k |
[17:55] |
| <geoaxis> |
i never said go RPM, RPM is crap, .deb or apt-get is much better |
[17:56] |
| <adeel> |
i don't see the difference between rpm and .deb |
[17:56] |
| *_snd liked joed saying the other day, Ubuntu is african for "I can't confifure my debian" |
[17:56] |
| <adeel> |
both precompiled binaries without any choice of featureset |
[17:57] |
| <geoaxis> |
adeel: there are so many differences |
[17:57] |
| <adeel> |
maybe in the actual package management system, but not the packages themselves |
[17:57] |
| <geoaxis> |
adeel: you dont need to optimize every feature for every thing |
[17:57] |
| <adeel> |
i don't have to do that in gentoo either |
[17:57] |
| <geoaxis> |
but it has a much better dependency control system (deb) |
[17:58] |
| <p-brane> |
packaging makes for good desktops and large deployments... I'd hate t manage 5,000 gentoo servers. How would one inventory what is installed on all those systems? FYI: I am NOT a sysadmin. |
[17:58] |
| <adeel> |
p-brane, gentoo has a way to do a binary install if you so choose, but you create your own binaries |
[17:58] |
| <geoaxis> |
so basically if you dont optimize your gentoo ..you are as good as debina ..tghe difference is you compile it on your system to use the binary |
[17:58] |
| <adeel> |
geoaxis, i only need to optimize 1 file (make.conf) and my system is optimized...i can go further if i need to |
[17:58] |
| <p-brane> |
I'd imagine that gentoo would be great for firewalls, routers, web servers |
[17:59] |
| <p-brane> |
geoaxis: how do manage those binary based systems? |
[17:59] |
| <adeel> |
p-brane, and there is a program (gentoolkit) that will give you a complete listing of the installed packages |
[17:59] |
| <geoaxis> |
p-brane: gentoo is actually good for learning |
[17:59] |
| <chiadog> |
mmm, portage |
[17:59] |
| <p-brane> |
geoaxis: I thought there weren't any packages |
[17:59] |
| <p-brane> |
if that is the case then it makes sense |
[17:59] |
| <adeel> |
there aren't any pre-compiled packages...well officially |
[18:00] |
| <geoaxis> |
well every linux distro including gentoo has precompiled packages |
[18:00] |
| <adeel> |
outside of the base stage3 |
[18:00] |
| <geoaxis> |
adeel , what is GRP then |
[18:00] |
| <adeel> |
geoaxis, non-existant |
[18:00] |
| <adeel> |
GRP was used back in the 1.2, but was discontinued |
[18:00] |
| <geoaxis> |
hmm |
[18:01] |
| <adeel> |
i maintain about 15 servers/workstations, all running gentoo |
[18:01] |
| <geoaxis> |
well i never used it, just know it was precompailed stuff |
[18:01] |
| <adeel> |
maintenance is fairly trivial and i can 'push' packages if i need to, |
[18:01] |
| <p-brane> |
adeel: can you push OpenNMS packages? |
[18:02] |
| <adeel> |
p-brane, well i compile OpenNMS, so yes |
[18:03] |
| <p-brane> |
adeel: okay, case closed ;-) |
[18:03] |
| <adeel> |
p-brane, i know there used to be an e-build for opennms, but i don't think it's maintained anymore due to the maven requirement |
[18:03] |
| <geoaxis> |
p-brane: i think any thing that can run JDK should be able to compile openNMS |
[18:03] |
| <_snd> |
it aint, i made it :p |
[18:03] |
| <adeel> |
_snd, hahaha seriously? |
[18:03] |
| <_snd> |
adeel: yup :p |
[18:04] |
| <adeel> |
that's cool |
[18:04] |
| <p-brane> |
geoaxis: there is the small C component you need to be a bit concerned about |
[18:04] |
| <_snd> |
ive considered freshing it up for 1.5.x and base it on the prebuilt target and at least use it myself |
[18:04] |
| <adeel> |
_snd, off topic completely, but what program do you use for audio playback of mp3's? i use mpd, but it's starting to annoy me |
[18:05] |
| <p-brane> |
~_snd++ |
[18:05] |
| <_sndbot> |
_snd has a karma level of 18, p-brane |
[18:05] |
| <Cuchulain> |
it's a real shame that www.funroll-loops.org no longer exists |
[18:05] |
| <adeel> |
what was funroll-loops ? |
[18:06] |
| <_snd> |
adeel: gentoo is servers only :) |
[18:06] |
| <Cuchulain> |
the site that listed all the "arguments in favour of gentoo |
[18:06] |
| <chalco> |
that was a great site |
[18:06] |
| <adeel> |
_snd, i was asking more of what you use personally, rather than if they're installed on your servers |
[18:06] |
| <Cuchulain> |
such as "you have no choice in featureset if you use binary packages" and "my system is optimised" |
[18:06] |
| <adeel> |
hahah |
[18:06] |
| <geoaxis> |
p-brane: for hibernate migration i suppose |
[18:06] |
| <_snd> |
adeel: itunes ;) |
[18:06] |
| <Cuchulain> |
i use gentoo myself on one server, but i'm seriously disappointed in it |
[18:07] |
| <adeel> |
oh yeah, i forgot...most of the dev's in this chan are mac based |
[18:07] |
| <adeel> |
Cuchulain, which server? |
[18:07] |
| <adeel> |
and why disappointed? |
[18:07] |
| <Cuchulain> |
lack of stability in packages |
[18:07] |
| <fastjay> |
evenin |
[18:07] |
| <Cuchulain> |
lack of vigourous testing for bugs and regressions |
[18:08] |
| <adeel> |
Cuchulain, hmmm...i guess it depends on the packages i guess |
[18:08] |
| <Cuchulain> |
eg, the pam package maintainer decided it was clever to force an update of all /etc/pam.d/* files |
[18:08] |
| <Cuchulain> |
not through the config system |
[18:08] |
| <Cuchulain> |
just push out a new file |
[18:08] |
| <Cuchulain> |
which wiped out my old ones... and meant i couldn't log in. |
[18:08] |
| <adeel> |
Cuchulain, well keep in mind that gentoo is almost entirely user feedback based...there's no QA team like redhat's |
[18:08] |
| <adeel> |
Cuchulain, that shouldn't be possible with gentoo |
[18:09] |
| <Cuchulain> |
by stability, i don't mean "they crash", i mean "they change too quickly" |
[18:09] |
| <p-brane> |
adeel: mac desktops; linux Servers |
[18:09] |
| <Cuchulain> |
it happened. |
[18:09] |
| <adeel> |
Cuchulain, well the only way i know it can happen is by passing the -5 option in etc-update |
[18:09] |
| <Cuchulain> |
at least once - i fixed it, and the pam package maintainer happened again |
[18:09] |
| <Cuchulain> |
you didn't read what i said - it didn't do it via the config system |
[18:09] |
| <Cuchulain> |
the files weren't flagged as config files |
[18:10] |
| <Cuchulain> |
so it just updated them |
[18:10] |
| <adeel> |
i've never experienced that |
[18:10] |
| <Cuchulain> |
no, it only happened for about 3 point releases of pam, a while back, and if you weren't running custom pam stuff, youwouldn't have seen it |
[18:11] |
| <p-brane> |
adeel: when I'm on the road, I don't have the time to find drivers for every different wild ass big screen external monitor I need to support or find some way to tweak the wireless to work in every funky network I come across... I just connect and start working... on the other hand, that's too much overhead for a NMS. |
[18:11] |
| <adeel> |
Cuchulain, and the 'change too quickly' is the way most opensource projects work...fix bugs by updating the latest, no one backports |
[18:11] |
| <Cuchulain> |
adeel: the despised binary distros backport bugfixes |
[18:12] |
| <Cuchulain> |
hey, i'm not saying gentoo is crap for everyone |
[18:12] |
| <Cuchulain> |
if you like having everything upgrade all the time, that's great for you. |
[18:12] |
| <adeel> |
p-brane, well typically, you could create a modular kernel and just load all the modules to give you support for everything...and wireless support has been fine tuned so that i'm up and running in 1 minute or less...just need to add an entry in a file and i'm golden |
[18:12] |
| <geoaxis> |
p-brane: exactly..gentoo is not exactly a time saver |
[18:12] |
| <Cuchulain> |
but it's a myth that newer packages are always more stable than older ones. newer packages means newer features which means newer bugs, not to mention regressions of old bugs |
[18:12] |
| <adeel> |
Cuchulain, i agree...i only update if there's a security risk, or a bug affects me specifically |
[18:13] |
| <p-brane> |
adeel: yeah, I well, I don't have to think about that when I walk up to the podium and hook up ;-) |
[18:13] |
| <adeel> |
p-brane, i agree, but i'm not arguing that gentoo is the end all be all distro for everyone |
[18:13] |
| <p-brane> |
adeel: I know. |
[18:13] |
| <adeel> |
there are a lot of situations where a binary distro is better than gentoo |
[18:13] |
| <adeel> |
and there are a lot of users for which binary distro's are better |
[18:14] |
| <p-brane> |
I think there is a purpose for every platform... I was referring to the Mac comments. |
[18:14] |
| <p-brane> |
gentoo OpenNMS... sounds great to me. |
[18:14] |
| <p-brane> |
time for some nutrients... biaw |
[18:14] |
| <geoaxis> |
argghhh |
[18:15] |
| <geoaxis> |
he was telling me about some C library to watch out for ..dam you p-brane |
[18:15] |
| <adeel> |
hahah |
[18:16] |
| <fastjay> |
:) |
[18:16] |
| <fastjay> |
man.. i totally realized i ignored the best practices stuff for puppet when i rolled our stuff |
[18:16] |
| <fastjay> |
so now i have to reorganize everything ;) |
[18:16] |
| <adeel> |
that sucks |
[18:17] |
| <fastjay> |
naa |
[18:17] |
| <adeel> |
nothing like wasting time repeating the same task multiple times |
[18:17] |
| <chalco> |
"experience" |
[18:20] |
| <adeel> |
haha |
[18:20] |
| <fastjay> |
well its not waste.. i mean what we have works.. and works well.. its just they wrote the best practicesto make shit scale.. right now e have like 30 or so classes.. when you have 100 or 200.. it gets alot harder to mangae ;) |
[18:23] |
| <fastjay> |
we only manage about 400 servers right now of around 5 different 'types' so |
[18:23] |
| <geoaxis> |
one day nms and oses would be slef healing an intelligent and would reduce sysadmins to the petty on/off switch guy |
[18:27] |
| <geoaxis> |
that day is very far away though |
[18:27] |
| <adeel> |
fastjay, oh only 400? |
[18:32] |
| <adeel> |
=cp |
[18:32] |
| <fastjay> |
yeah |
[18:34] |
| <fastjay> |
only |
[18:34] |
| <fastjay> |
last shop i worked at.. we had 2500 servers.. but no puppet :( |
[18:34] |
| <fastjay> |
and i just pushed an rpm out to 400 boxes w/ 3 lines of configuration syntax |
[18:40] |
| <_snd> |
fastjay: about the same as i use to get my boxes to install an ebuild :p |
[19:08] |
| *** PowerOp :116.59.120.212 joined the channel |
[19:08] |
| <fastjay> |
_snd: puppet supports gentoo |
[19:08] |
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[19:18] |
| <mhuot-iphone> |
W00t |
[19:18] |
| <RangerRick> |
werd |
[19:19] |
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[19:35] |
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[19:35] |
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[19:47] |
| <adeel> |
anyone recall the link dealing with topology graphs from a few days back? |
[19:49] |
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[19:55] |
| <_snd> |
_jef :) |
[19:57] |
| <jeffg> |
_snd =] |
[19:57] |
| <_sndbot> |
i think we did some practical test of some sort of targeted notification approach. |
[19:57] |
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[19:59] |
| <_snd> |
nmsmanjohn: :) |
[19:59] |
| <nmsmanjohn> |
eveing _snd |
[19:59] |
| <nmsmanjohn> |
where was that link at you sent me about ONMs and the Groovy scripts? |
[20:00] |
| <nmsmanjohn> |
i went to the parent dir and saw another one about generating an alarm |
[20:00] |
| <_snd> |
me? |
[20:00] |
| <nmsmanjohn> |
i think it was you. |
[20:00] |
| <_snd> |
doubt it :) |
[20:00] |
| <nmsmanjohn> |
or maybe it was mhout |
[20:00] |
| <nmsmanjohn> |
i've only discussed it with you and him. |
[20:01] |
| <nmsmanjohn> |
had a 50/50 chance |
[20:01] |
| <nmsmanjohn> |
heheh |
[20:01] |
| <_snd> |
then its him :) |
[20:01] |
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